Normalising backing tracks

[musketeer58]

How`s it going troops, hope you`re all well.

I`m hoping to get some advice re: normalising backing tracks.

All my backing tracks are at different levels and it`s annoying having to keep adjusting the volume for each one. I tried it using Audacity but failed miserably, here`s what I did:

I imported all the backing tracks into Audacity and selected "NORMALISE" from the effect drop down menu and it did normalise them but when I played it back, it played all the backing tracks at the same time because it saved all of them on one track. What a racket! I had a look through the help section but couldn`t find anything so, here I am again, crying out for some help. If somebody could let me know how to do it, I would appreciate it very much.

Cheers all.

Adrian

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Adrian,
You should import each track separately and normalise it, then recompile it back to the format it was originally, then on to the next one, and so on.
I am not convinced that normalising will completely solve the problem though. Do that first, then play all the normalised tracks to see if you are happy with the levels of each, then any that seem too loud can be reduced manually. It would be best to start again with those, normalising, then reducing as required, then convert to the format you want. Repeat as necessary for each track.
Regards,
Charlie

[Stu's Dad]

Adrian,

Have a look at a free piece of software called Virtual DJ. I've downloaded it but haven't had time to try it yet (I'm on holiday). I believe it solves that problem if you set your tracks as play lists.

Len

[Viv]

Hi Adrian,

I use this: mp4gain.com/index.php
It comes with a trial version.

Works very well and saves the conversions to a different folder in case there's a problem.


Cheers

Viv

[sixchannel]

Viv
Is that the new version of the old mp3gain.sourceforge.net?
Cheers
Ian

[George Lewis]

Hi Adrian,

If you imported the individual tracks into Audacity they will stay as individual tracks after normalization.
However, when you press "play" all the tracks will play unless you use "Mute" or "Solo" to play only one at a time.
Then when you export the tracks you must export them one at a time by selecting the track and using the "Export Selected Track" option.
It is also possible to export multiple tracks by using labels but I suggest you stick to one at a time.

However that is a tedious method for multiple BT's with no guarantee they will sound any better.

Assuming your BT's are in MP3 format why not try MP3Gain which is free, very good, very fast and easy to use (provided you spend a few minutes to read the instructions !!)

It is the one Ian mentions and not the same as Viv's MP4gain.

The author says ..

"Tired of reaching for your volume knob every time your mp3 player changes to a new song ?
MP3Gain analyzes and adjusts mp3 files so that they have the same volume.

MP3Gain does not just do peak normalization, as many normalizers do. Instead, it does some statistical analysis to determine how loud the file actually sounds to the human ear.
Also, the changes MP3Gain makes are completely lossless. There is no quality lost in the change because the program adjusts the mp3 file directly, without decoding and re-encoding."


The details are here and it can be downloaded from
mp3gain.sourceforge.net


Quite often individual files will still need to be adjusted separately to a higher or lower level, but this can be done easily.

Regards
George

[Viv]

Sept 18, 2016 12:45:40 GMT sixchannel said:

Viv
Is that the new version of the old mp3gain.sourceforge.net?
Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian,
Yes, it's the updated version of MP3Gain.
MP3Gain did audio only. MP4Gain does video as well.
Cheers

Viv

[normg]

If using itunes for backing tracks.
Open iTunes and from the menu bar on top of the computer screen choose iTunes >preferences.
Click Edit then click playback tab
Click Sound check and that will update music to same level.
Cheers Norm

[George Lewis]

Hi Viv and Ian,
Just for interest, MP4Gain is the "upgraded" version of MP3gain PRO which is not the same as the original MP3Gain as the author notes on his site as follows.

"The author of MP3Doctor recently renamed his "SuperMp3Normalizer" program to "Mp3Gain PRO". I did not write this new program, so please do not email me any support questions about it.
If you're interested, here are the main technical differences between "Mp3Gain PRO" and my, uh, "classic"(?) MP3Gain:

"Mp3Gain PRO" does volume normalization inside the mp3, not just between separate mp3s. So if you feel a song is too quiet at the beginning (or middle, or end), then it can boost the volume just for that part. Pretty cool, if that's what you need.
The changes "Mp3Gain PRO" makes are not undo-able. In order to make its fine-tuned adjustments, it must re-encode the mp3 file.

Anyhow, check it out if you're interested. But don't ask me any questions "

What I find nifty with the classic MP3Gain is that because it's changes can be reversed and redone on the fly it does not require making extra copies.
Also the practice of normalising individual sections of an audio track assumes the sound engineer did not understand dynamics and expression.

Having said that, most modern music is exempt from any form of dynamic expression with only one setting loud !!

(Must get one of those "Certified Grumpy Old Man" T-Shirts.)

Regards
George

[Viv]

Hi George,
Interesting, and now leaves me a bit confused. I downloaded MP4Gain in January 2014 specifically to normalise MP3 CD's which were for use in the car while travelling.
These compilations were sourced from all over the place including vinyl to MP3 conversions and thus the levels were all over the place.
For this purpose MP4Gain did what I needed. I could take a bunch of MP3's and run them through MP4Gain and burn to a CD.
This was before I discovered that Nero Burning Rom would normalise the tracks when burning.

This was the message I received back in Jan 2014 at the time of purchase. Note the four different website addresses at the end:

Thanks for purchase Mp4Gain

Support: [e-mail]

BTW, can you tell us where do you find or read about our software?, Thanks.

Best Regards
Mp3Doctor - Mp4Gain

www.mp3doctor.com | www.mp4gain.com
www.mp3gain-pro.com | www.supermp3normalizer.com


I now really don't know what I've got and whether or not it's related to the original MP3Gain.
Cheers
Viv

[George Lewis]

Hi Viv,
This is the original MP3gain site.
mp3gain.sourceforge.net

The author definitely states the newly (at that time) renamed MP3gain Pro is nothing to do with him.
I suspect the MP3doctor authors renamed their software to MP3Gain Pro in order to ride on the coat tails of the popular MP3Gain.

Having said that I'm sure it's a very useful program and ideal for normalising different level tracks and boosting quiet passages for use in a noisy environment like a car.
I used to laboriously do that manually for classical music which has a very wide dynamic range with quiet passages that were virtually inaudible.

Regards
George

[musketeer58]

Many thanks for your replies gentlemen, you`ve come to the rescue yet again.

You`re right Charlie, it does normalise them up to a point but there is still a little difference in the levels but certainly a lot better than before as they were all over the place.

I had a look at the other software that was suggested and I`m going to download all of them and try them out and see which one I prefer, I didn`t know there were so many and I`m sure there are many more but I think these will keep me going for a while. I just played a few songs and it`s great not having to adjust the levels for each one.

Thanks again for your advice and suggestions guys, as always, very much appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

[philc]

Do you Master your tracks Adrian? If so just set your compressor (5 band is best) so that your VU's just momentarily clip the red on the loudest parts.

Phil

[musketeer58]

How`s it going Phil.

Please forgive my ignorance but I don`t know what you mean when you talk about mastering tracks and when you mentioned the compressor, is this part of the Audacity software because that`s what I`m using at the moment. When I`m recording, I set the levels so that the bar at the top of the screen in audacity is just getting into the red section on the loudest parts, is that what you meant? My apologies but this is all new to me as I`ve just recently taken up recording and I`ve always put up with having the BT`s at different levels and, as I said, It`s now great that the levels are much closer but if there is any other advice that you could provide Phil, it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

[philc]

Hi Adrian,

I think most sequencers have a Mastering plugin, they usually incorporate a five or sometimes more frequencies to compress, this is different to the compressor you use for a guitar etc. as it basically compresses lows, mids and highs, so that the overall sound is at balanced levels and usually when set right, higher, you should see a before and after difference with your tracks wav form.

Phil

[garystrat]

Hi Adrian

You would probably give yourself a little more headroom if you dropped the recorded track volume level down to about -12/18dB, adjust the BT level accordingly. This should handle transient levels (highs and lows) better without going into the red, which causes clipping.

The principal is to get a nice clean recording initially (not overloaded) and sufficient headroom for later mastering (keeping levels below clipping into the red at all stages). Mastering is the final stage process where the recording is done and then fully optimised, it is a two part process. Mastering is the stage where you fully adjust levels, fine tweak all the setting and dynamics, at a professional level this often done by specialists in the studio. It is a good idea to keep a the original recording safe and save the mastered version under different file name, you can then return to the original a later date as your experience grows and work on it further (a good way to gain experience of EQ and effects, particularly if you keep the original a pure as possible, you can always add EQ/FX to an original recording but not remove it).

The optimal level for the final recording should be close to 0dB, when you you go into the red it becomes a plus dB level.

Regards

Gary

[sandra]

I haven't used it for a long time Adrian but there is a website called LANDR that does online mastering to give you an idea of what mastering does.

Not much good for the experienced pros like Phil and Gary but you may find it useful and there's a bit of info and a review and some samples of what it does here :

ask.audio/articles/review-landr-online-mastering.

The free option is limited to a couple of tracks per month but you can see what effect it can have on your tracks and you can vary the intensity of the effects.

[eric65]

LANDR seems to mess the tracks up i found

[musketeer58]

Many thanks for your replies and advice Phil Gary and Sandra.

This has turned out to be a lot more complicated than I thought it would be so I`m going to take it nice and slowly, one step at a time. Firstly, I`ll start with a nice clean recording and then I`ll play around with EQ etc and take it from there and ask further questions as I go along. It`s all part of the learning curve and all good fun.

Thanks again everyone for your help sand advice, very much appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

[philc]

Adrian,

Not so complicated play your bt, record your guitar, play the both back and balance the two so that the volumes sound right, then if you need to, add effects like eq and reverb to the guitar, check the balance again.

When you record the mix to a new track, get the VU's as high as you can, an occasional flick into the red is ok. Look at the new wav form, it should be strong/thick and not thin...there you go

Phil

[musketeer58]

Thanks for the advice Phil, that makes it look a bit easier although, I am having a problem with the levels. The recorded level of the guitar is always low. I thought that increasing the level of the channel faders would increase the level of what`s being recorded but it doesn`t make much difference, it just increases the volume into the monitors or headphones, probably a button that I haven't pressed or something. It`s not really a problem because I can alter the volume of the recording by selecting amplify in the effects menu. I think the manual that came with the mixer is aimed at experienced people as there`s a lot of jargon in there that I don`t understand but as I said, I`m new to mixers and recording etc so, I`ll take it one step at a time. I noticed that you`re in Cardiff, you`re not too far from my Auntie and Uncle who live in Pyle.

Cheers for now Phil

Adrian

[garystrat]

Hi Adrian

These things are a lot easier to explain visually or if you are doing it yourself, I found the following links where the setup is pretty close to what I think you are trying to do:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeBaPgvuP1I

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkJbn9DaFM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaxnc0hxQW8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVqZga5rayA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj_C9gN0wC0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=068fQHzP8qo

Hope this helps.

Gary

[George Lewis]

Hi Adrian,
What is your recording interface ?
Does it have it's own volume control ?
Are you recording via an effects pedal ?

Usually in Audacity for a guitar, the input volume which is the little microphone symbol in the top part is set to full on.
The track volume should be left at 0.

As long as the guitar signal is clean, and high enough to include all the signal it can easily be amplified later without any loss of quality.

Always continue the recording for few seconds after the tune is finished and there is no residual guitar signal eg if the last note or chord is allowed to fade out naturally.
You want a few seconds of the recording with no audible guitar signal so that it includes only the noise that might come from the recording setup, guitar pups and wiring etc.

Select those few seconds and then from the effects menu select Noise Reduction. Click "Get Noise Profile" which will analyze the few seconds you selected. Then select the whole track and select Noise Reduction again but this time just click OK. This will then remove any background noise from the track.

After that you can amplify the track using the effects amplify option. By default it will show the maximum amount before clipping occurs.

Much harder to describe than do so let me know if it's not clear.

Regards
George

[garystrat]

Hi George

I agree it's difficult to tell what happening due to a lack of information, but I think the problem may be that he's using an external mixer and he is monitoring that and not the DAW (computer)!

This is why I hoped the video setup may be of help to him, if your are familiar with Audacity, perhaps you can help him from there?

Regards

Gary

[shadfan4]

This really is a simple task, if using Audacity as said in the OP, then just select the track and select "Normalise" from whichever tab/right click etc it requires, and if 0db isn't what you want (that's the normal setting) then change it and hit the the go button..

Mike.

PS Normalising does nothing more than raise the track in the correct ratio to the highest peak. (0 dBFS) the problem is if doing this on all tracks in a multi-track recording there is little headroom left for the final mix.

Mike.

[musketeer58]

Many thanks for the replies guys, I`m now starting to understand it a bit better.

Thanks for those You Tube links Gary, they were a great help, I should have looked there in the first place, I see there are a lot more which I`ll go through and have a look at.

George, my recording setup is as follows: Guitar > volume pedal > HCSE > Joyo AC Tone > mixer > PC. The mixer is a Yamaha MG12XU, it has a fader, EQ and gain controls for each channel and a master fader amongst other things. I`ve got a cable from the speaker out jack of the PC to one of the inputs on the mixer for the BT`s and the guitar into one of the other inputs and a USB cable between the mixer and PC. I play with either a pair of studio monitors or headphones plugged into the mixer. This mixer is more than I need at the moment but I will be plugging in microphones, a keyboard and a CD player further down the track and I do set the input volume to full on. The way I record is to import the BT into Audacity and then click "record" and play to the BT. Hopefully, that will give you an idea of what I`m up to.

I have used the "normalise" function before Mike. I used it to get my BT`s to around the same level because, at the time, they were all at different levels and I was always having to adjust the volume for each one which was a pain in the you know where.

Many thanks again for your advice guys, always very much appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

[garystrat]

Hi Adrian

That’s what I thought was going on, you only have a signal (lead) going to to the computer, you also need another lead from the computers output back to the mixer to monitor what's going through Audacity. Whilst you can use the mixers controls, for recording it is best to set the mixer to give a strong clear audio level to the computer and them use Audacities levels to make adjustments. The reason for this is that the sound and levels can't be changed from what is being sent to the computer, but once in Audacity you can continue to make changes and alter effect as much as you like, this why in my first post I said it's best to keep the first recording intact as a master and work on copies.

This video link will show you how the connections should be made and which sockets and computer connections to use:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA-mg9IxOFk


This link tells you a little more about levels, going into the computer you really need just a strong clean signal, for you to work on within the DAW:

www.audiorecording.me/correct-audio-mixing-levels-and-headroom-in-preparation-for-mastering.html

Just remember that anything going to the computer is fixed as a recording, within the Audacity you can make variable changes and experiment with FX, to monitor the recorded signal you could also use headphones plugged into the computer.

Hope thats got you up and running now and that you enjoy the end results!

Regards

Gary

[George Lewis]

Sept 28, 2016 5:33:09 GMT musketeer58 said:

Many thanks for the replies guys, I`m now starting to understand it a bit better.

.... my recording setup is as follows: Guitar > volume pedal > HCSE > Joyo AC Tone > mixer > PC. The mixer is a Yamaha MG12XU, it has a fader, EQ and gain controls for each channel and a master fader amongst other things. I`ve got a cable from the speaker out jack of the PC to one of the inputs on the mixer for the BT`s and the guitar into one of the other inputs and a USB cable between the mixer and PC. I play with either a pair of studio monitors or headphones plugged into the mixer.

This mixer is more than I need at the moment but I will be plugging in microphones, a keyboard and a CD player further down the track and I do set the input volume to full on. The way I record is to import the BT into Audacity and then click "record" and play to the BT. Hopefully, that will give you an idea of what I`m up to.

Hi Adrian,

This sounds like you are using the mixer as a recording input "sound card" via it's USB connection to the PC.
If that is the case it will show up in the list of Audacity recording devices as "USB something or other" (technical term !).

That should give a nice strong guitar signal into Audacity if the USB signal is controlled by the mixer main out volume control.

However, you also have a cable from the PC speaker out going into the mixer. Can you isolate this so it doesn't go back to the PC via the USB link ? Otherwise it would also be recorded by Audacity along with the guitar ... which you definitely don't want.

What kind of speakers do you usually have for the PC ... the monitors or some others ?

Do your monitors have the facility for two sets of inputs with individual gain controls for each ?


Basically when recording you need to hear the BT and the guitar signal direct as you play it.
The BT is no problem as it can be heard straight out of the PC speakers.

Audacity has the option of also playing the guitar out through the PC as it is recorded but this is usually unsatisfactory because of latency ... ie the slight delay due to processing between when you hit the note and when you hear it.

So you need some way of hearing the guitar direct eg via the mixer audio connection to the monitors which is probably what you are doing now.


I have a similar setup but don't usually bother with the mixer when recording.
The guitar goes into a sim and Magicstomp then half the signal goes into a sound card for recording via Audacity and the other half goes direct into one set of inputs on the monitors. The other set of inputs is used as the PC speakers.

The BT is loaded into Audacity and automatically plays through the monitors via the PC speaker output when the record is hit. The guitar is recorded via the sound card and also heard direct via the direct signal to the monitors so there is no latency at all.

It all sounds so complex when described ! but isn't really.

Ours is a very simple recording method since it is direct into the DAW and there is no issue with microphone or ambient noise to worry about.

Regards
George

[garystrat]

Hi Adrian

Sorry, I misread your comment on the connection, the fact the BT is getting to the mixer shows that the Audacity output is set to line output i.e. your sound card speaker out jack (thats assuming you have loaded the BT into Audacity and not using another program). You can make both input and output connections via the USB lead only, I would do this to avoid confusion. I have had a look at the Audacity Manual, you need to goto Edit> Preferences >Devices and you will see the screen in the link below:

manual.audacityteam.org/man/devices_preferences.html

Reading what it says at the bottom of the screen see if there is an option to select "Direct Host", there is a drop down box so you should see the options. If there is a problem with the right options not showing, go to The MS Windows Preference Settings> Sound and select the Yamaha as both the input device and output device, if you wish to you can then use you mixer for all input and output audio from the computer (this is what I do through an audio interface, you should be able to have both headphones and monitored connected to the mixer, just switch accordingly).

Click the down arrow in both Input Device and Playback Device, you should see the mixer name or number that relates to the Yamaha, click on it to set it in each box and you should now be seeing just that device as being selected.

The next stage is doing the recording and setting up the tracks, this video goes through the whole process from loading tracks and making settings:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq2pSxMkq8Y

Hopefully by now you will be up and running.

Once again, apologies if I confused you earlier, but you could also make the connections as shown without using the USB, both will work it's just a question of making the correct selection in Windows Sound Settings and Audacity.

Regards

Gary

[musketeer58]

Many thanks again Gary and George, you`ve both been a tremendous help.

I thought you may have misunderstood Gary, I was trying to figure out what you meant but I certainly appreciate the time you`ve taken to post all these links and pics etc.

The mixer does show up in the list of recording devices in Audacity George and now it`s automatically selected when I run it. I`ll remove the audio cable from the PC to the mixer and use the PC speakers for the BT and listen to the guitar through the studio monitors or headphones. (Hope I understood that part correctly.) For the PC, I`ve got a subwoofer, a centre speaker and 4 satellites. I`ve got a pair of studio monitors which plug into the mixer, they have 3 inputs which are 1/4 inch jack, XLR and an RCA. They haven't got individual gain controls, they have a level control and a HF level adjust. I just use the 1/4 inch jack.

Just one thing I wanted to mention, the main reason for the audio cable from the PC out to the Mixer is because I`ve got all my BT`s on the PC and I put that cable in so that, when I`m playing, (not recording) I can play the BT`s into the mixer so that I`ve got the BT`s from the monitors and the guitar from the amp so, I just left it there for recording as well.

Looks like I`ve got a lot of adjustments and settings to play with but I usually only get time on the weekends so, I`ll play around with it this weekend and I`ll let you know how I get on. I`m sure that, after all this advice, I`ll be ok.

Thanks a million again gentlemen, your help and advice is invaluable.

Regards

Adrian