Shindig - with Hall & Collins echo

[Charlie Hall]

Hi all,
I have recorded the first proper sound file to demonstrate the new echo unit since it was announced. I have uploaded it and linked to it in this section so that non members can listen too.
The backing track is derived from the Shadows original recording, taken from the left channel only and the two tracks on this recording were panned at 77% left and right. Traces of Hank remain. If anyone wants to hear my guitar only recording with no processing, exactly as it was recorded from my amp, I will upload that too.
Recorded with my Fiesta Red Strat replica with CS Fat 50s pickups, middle pickup used, into the prototype echo unit, Echomatic 2 general low level patch, all knobs set to default settings, into my Standel replica amp with speaker disconnected, into Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulator, into computer. There is some distortion from my amp, heard mainly from the plain strings, which I didn't notice at the time of the take. The recording direct from the amp is surprisingly compressed, in fact.
I chose Shindig because my Strat sounds closer to it with the 10s I usually use, and because there is a lower amount of echo, I thought it might show how well the echo can enhance the sound even at the lower level.
I made a slight playing mistake in the last verse, not deliberately, I might add. Hank makes one too, but not in exactly the same place, so I thought I'd leave my take exactly as it was recorded.
I have not tried too hard to duplicate exactly the guitar tone of the original, instead preferring to demonstrate how it might sound with a typical Strat, much as those who were at the Get Together heard it, hopefully. Those who were there might like to comment on whether they think this recording is a fair representation of what they heard.
Here is the link:
Shindig_Hall_Collins_echo.mp3
Regards,
Charlie

[guitarsam]

Sounds just like the original to my ears. Beautiful echo sound from the Hall & Collins unit. Well done, Charlie. Can't wait to hear Wonderful Land & Peace Pipe.

Regards,
Scott

[brattmoore]

Excellent ! Like Scott, can't wait to hear Wonderful Land & Peace Pipe. Regards.

[Bojan Drndic]

I have just compared it to the original, and (except for different recording levels), it sounds the same !!! (at least to my ears) . . . Truly awesome !!!

[ubique]

Hi Charlie.
Brilliant! Gorgeous sound and I can't wait to get one.
Best regards
Neil

[Deleted]

HI CHARLIE-JOHN & ALL ,, JUST GREAT,, Charlie it will do me anyday & much better than the first a while back ,You & John have got The-sound-well sorted-out ..& the FAT-FIFTIES came though nicely.these are great vintage sounding P/up's..
To add!!!!!!,,,,, Great playing as well Charlie ..
ALL THE BEST TO YOU BOTH-in the new venture,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,barry..

[asimmd]

Hi Charlie

Nice playing and a good sound,I hope my Fat 50's sound that good when I fit them.

I suppose the true test would be to play the same tune using the Q2/Q20,then a comparison could be made,I bet you have already done that?

Like others have said,Wonderful Land/Atlantis/Golden Street will be a sterner test of the unit,but all sounds well as it stands.

Looking forward to the next demo's.

Well done

Alan

[Charlie Hall]

Thanks to everyone for your comments.

Hi Alan,
I hadn't done that but I have now. Here's a quick recording made with the Q20. It has had exactly the same processing done as the main file. It was a one take attempt so it's not quite as well played but it clearly shows the difference in sound, not just with the echo but also the way the dry signal has not been enhanced by the valve simulation circuitry in this case:
Shindig Q20.mp3
Regards,
Charlie

[jase]

Hi Charlie

I definitely prefer the Hall and Collins sound compared to the Q20 and I'm looking forward to hearing more sound files.

[Deleted]

Hi Charlie, the new unit is sounding great. I have listened to both files and yes, you can clearly hear a difference. Not sure if this is the right term but, the new unit appears to be a brighter sound. As some others have said, a test for me would be a mellower tune, something along the lines of W.Land etc, but I understand the tests you are carrying out. I can see this being a major discussion topic in the music press when the beast is released and wish you and John all the success you deserve.

Regards, Graham

[kipper]

great sound and playing charlie. both clips sound wise are brilliant i think the first clip is better for whatever reason. i dont think the genral listening public would be able to tell the differents. but it leaves us all here clamering for more.
dont lets forget how good your eftp are anyway. but the new unit is a brilliant new concept by you and john and very exciting, and something to really look forward to. all the best with it peter

[grip]

Hi Charlie,

I found I needed to listen several times to an A-B comparison with the H&C versus the Q20 mixed alternately to really hear the difference, the only way I can describe the difference is to say H&C is more "Gutsy" than the Q20. As most of us on here would like to be owners of a Q20, I reckon that makes the unit outstanding. I still want one


Kind regards,


Chris

[mikep1]

Absolutely spot on charlie can`t wait for the new unit to be available.

I think you should be awarded an MBE for your dedication to music, im sure others would agree.

Regards,
Mike.

[betowelch]

Hi Charlie & John:

Very nice echo. Really very closer to original. Congrats for all envolved in this project...

Cheers from Brazil!
Roberto

[philbarker]

Roll on the end of the year!!!

[Andy Cook]

Just fantastic
Can't wait till the new unit becomes available
Best regards
Andy

[Rick]

WOW Charlie ! A lovely sound !That middle pick-up !Those fat 50s,THE NEW HALL & COLLINS ECHO UNIT ! A great combination very well done to you. Best wishes, Rick.

[asimmd]

Hello Charlie

Thanks for doing the comparison,I certainly shows how much better the new echoe's are.

I am sure you will be doing more demo's,and I would love to hear some of the early tunes played through the new unit.

Question; does the new echo add anything to the tone of the guitar being used?

Alan

[Charlie Hall]

Thanks for all your comments.

Hi Graham and Alan,
The unit doesn't actually make the sound brighter, it makes it harmonically more interesting, like valves do. Basically done by non-linear transfer of the signal from input to output, in other words, it bends the waveforms. However, there is some one sided soft clipping going on with larger signals too, like with a Meazzi first stage.
There is also some bass roll off too, like the Echomatic 2.
Listen to the two recordings and try to concentrate on the dry signal of each one if possible, then you should hear the difference.
The echo is also different. Apart from more accurate EQ and feedback and wow and flutter, there is an analogue drive circuit that causes soft clipping like overloaded tape. And in this unit, the analogue circuits are all solid state of my own design.
Regards,
Charlie

[asimmd]

Hi Charlie

Thanks for the explanation.You said "Apart from more accurate EQ and feedback and wow and flutter, there is an analogue drive circuit that causes soft clipping like overloaded tape".

Is this designed to give the overdriven sound we hear on recordings such as Golden Street and Theme from Shane etc?

Alan

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Alan,
Not really, I don't think there is any echo on Theme From Shane so I should think that was more likely from amp distortion. Golden Street might have some, but I should think Cosy is the earliest example of the kind of distorted echo sound that I meant. It also has more wow and flutter.
That particular circuit only affects the echo signal.
The Echomatic 2 certainly had some distortion going on with the dry signal as well, I think Happy Birthday shows it more clearly than anything else. Because the Echomatic 2 didn't have a control to reduce input overload like some Meazzis had, it's a wonder it could sound as clean as it did on many recordings.
Regards,
Charlie

[shawbridge]

Hi Charlie,
very nice indeed and so like the original.
As an early shads tune with lots of echo distortion is one of my favourits Sweet Dreams bags of distorted echo sounds especially on the lower notes.

hi Alan,From what I hear Shane was just reverb sound but cou;d be proven wrong but never met anyone yet tht though there was echo involved with the Shane tune.

Cheers Charlie for the post.

Peter

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your comments.
I know Sweet Dreams, so I wouldn't mind doing that next. Although I haven't heard it for a long time, so I would probably have to play it from memory. Do you think it used a wound or plain G?
Regards,
Charlie

[shawbridge]

Hi Charlie,
To me it sounds more like a wound G as opposed to a plain, I remember at the Get together I was itching to try out Sweet dreams on the pedal but no backing track was available, it is one of those tunes that doesn't make much sense when played without the backing if you see what I mean as there is quite a lot of chord changing around sustained notes,
some are lonely is similar.

Peter

[poppastarr]

Hi Charlie

Just loved your Shindig the sound and performance, a great echo unit, looking forward to hearing others with that echo. In all I have listened to many of the players on the site and can only say what an enjoyment it has been, congrats all you guys and gals.

Val aka poppastar.

Hi Charlie

Your Shinding was really good and sounds just like Hank Marvin. I have been learning that instro as well but I play it a bit different again, like Hank Marvin does a bit different sometimes from some of the videos I have watched. Its still a bit hard and my Poppa has shown me a few ways but I will do my best.

Thank you
Chloe Guitarchick

[rosemary]

Hi Charlie
Very very close to the original and very very impressive! I've just played the original Shadows recording followed by yours to my husband and he said he couldn't notice the difference at all.
Best wishes
Rosemary

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply. I found that Sweet Dreams was an EP track, so I might have it on an EP collection CD. I'll have a look later.

Hi Val and Chloe,
Thanks for your kind comments.
Chloe, as far as I know I used Hank's original way of playing it, although I have never studied him playing it in the old days. I figured it out by trying to think how he would have at the time and by listening to the tone of each individual string. Let me know if you need help with any parts.

Hi Rosemary,
Thanks for your kind comments, and it is interesting that you and your husband both think I got the same sound as Hank. In fact with headphones there is a noticeable difference which I could hear, as I had Hank's removed lead running along with my track to compare (I even did frequency analysis to EQ mine and got mine similar but without going crazy over it), but with speakers it seems much less of a difference, especially when not positioned straight in front of the right hand side speaker. Mine has more mids, but I am beginning to get used to the sound. I wasn't sure about it to begin with. I'm sure you can relate to that way of thinking after just completing a recording.

Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

HI , I posted my comment earlier , but reading these posts ,the name ,,''The-Hall &Collin's-Echo'' has a nice ring to it ,..

JUST a Thought ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,barry..

[asimmd]

Hi All

Thanks for the replies,I do know that Shane has no echo,my comment was referring to the tone of the guitar on this track as well as Golden Street.

I don't want to get into a how was the tone achieved but,the early stuff,which is generally regarded as "That Sound"has a distinct overdriven/overloaded sound to it.

If you listen to the original Move It recording,the sound of Hank is there,even though it was not a Strat,and not played by Hank,which makes it even more likely that the Tone,not the echo was a Studio Produced effect.
The closest I have heard Hank get to the sound is on the Kingston Live cd,but it is not there all the time.

I better be quiet now,tin hat is on.

Alan

[chrishampton1981]

Hi Charlie!

The new echo unit sounds brilliant and really nails that vintage sound. Would like to hear a version of "Theme For Young Lovers" with the new unit in the future so I could hear the multi-tap echoes in the damped section.

Well done on this new project and hope to hear more soon

Kind Regards
Chris