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Post by GAJ52 on Jan 21, 2020 14:17:35 GMT
Hi All
Can I have your advice please.
I bought a Burns Drifter from the UB Hank Club many years ago, it has gold hardware and Kinman pickups - don't know what type as they were already fitted to the guitar. I'm thinking of trying to trade this guitar in for a Burns Marvin Legend which looks more like the guitar Hank used.
Apart from reading the sales info on the Burns website I know nothing about the quality of this guitar. I'm trying to get some advice if its worth keeping my Drifter or going for the Marvin Legend regarding quality and sound ?
Glen
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Post by jontie on Jan 21, 2020 19:54:46 GMT
I'm afraid I can't help on your question, but you do know that there are 2 "Legends". The original being a Custom Shop model, so it depends which one you're trading up to.
Cheers
John
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Post by GAJ52 on Jan 21, 2020 20:27:13 GMT
Thanks for pointing that out, seems the custom shop version is no longer available and I won't be paying an inflated price for a collectors version. Can anyone give me any info on the current version sold on the Burns website.
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Post by Stu's Dad on Jan 21, 2020 20:44:17 GMT
I think the Kinmans were factory fitted Glen. I'd hang on to it if I were you, it looks like a bit of a special guitar to me.
Cheers,
Len
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Post by GAJ52 on Jan 21, 2020 22:33:05 GMT
Good point Len, I must admit it is a good looking guitar and sounds good. If the later non Custom shop Burns are not as good quality then I may as well keep the Drifter
That for your advice, Glen
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Post by Steve Reynolds on Jan 22, 2020 9:57:53 GMT
The Burns Drifter as i recall is a Burns Marquee style guitar but made higher spec with Kinmans etc in the UK. If the Burns Marvin you are after is a Legend model these are also UK built and better built than the 2004 Chinese made Marvins. The main difference between the 2 being the trem system and the pickups. I played a Legend and found it a fantastic guitar and sounded more like what i expected a Burns to sound rather than a strat sound of the chinese type of Marvins Some links here: www.trevormidgley.com/BurnsGuitars/Drifter.htmlwww.trevormidgley.com/BurnsGuitars/Legend.html |
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Post by GAJ52 on Jan 22, 2020 16:23:31 GMT
Hi Steve Thanks for the links, very interesting. My Drifter is white, don't know if this is unusual as Mr Midgley says they came in Fiesta Red or Duck Egg Blue. The more I read about these guitars makes me more determined to keep my Drifter. How does the Burns Marvin on the Burns London website fit into the mix, is this a cheap Asian build www.burnsguitars.com/burnsmarvinlegend.phpGlen |
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Post by peterbower on Jan 23, 2020 8:22:49 GMT
I have never really considered Burns guitars other than the fact they were British made in the earlier days and it was seen as Britain's answer to Fender, Later British built Burns had necks CNC cut by the Patrick Eggle factory in Coventry for a short while, so I was told
I wonder why Hank no longer plays Burns guitars,
If I was to get a Burns, it would be the King Cobra,
Peter
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Post by glyderslead on Jan 23, 2020 10:37:05 GMT
Hello Glen.
My understanding is that Burns have a lot of their parts made in China but the final assembly is in the UK; though I expect some of their more expensive instruments are entirely made in the uk. The machines used to make the parts are the same here as there and it's the labour cost that counts. The type of wood used is also very relevant as is the quality of metal used.
The King Cobra Peter likes has a more Strat-style look overall and a Strat-style tremolo, which I think is best too. Much as I like the Marvin guitars I find the tremolo arm is its weakness. I have always found that the Resotube tremolo connections from the arm itself to the plate that rocks is a bit, Heath Robinson. I would not be surprised if it was the constant need to re-adjust nuts to stop the arm swinging freely that put Hank off. However - do not let this put you off. One of our members- Peter Cooke - has the most simple solution that does not alter the guitar in any way - if you have the need. I tried it. it solves all and stabilizes the tremolo arm so it will stay firm and only move as required with the lightest touch.
Cheers
Mick
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Post by rogercook on Jan 23, 2020 11:28:30 GMT
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Post by philc on Jan 23, 2020 15:42:55 GMT
Hello Glen. Much as I like the Marvin guitars I find the tremolo arm is its weakness. I have always found that the Resotube tremolo connections from the arm itself to the plate that rocks is a bit, Heath Robinson. I would not be surprised if it was the constant need to re-adjust nuts to stop the arm swinging freely that put Hank off. However - do not let this put you off. One of our members- Peter Cooke - has the most simple solution that does not alter the guitar in any way - if you have the need. I tried it. it solves all and stabilizes the tremolo arm so it will stay firm and only move as required with the lightest touch. Cheers Mick I haven't had the swinging arm sindrome since I've owned my 1964 Marvin? Here's some pics if you want to compare the original to the modern version. Phil     |
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Post by GAJ52 on Jan 23, 2020 15:49:59 GMT
Many thanks guys for all the good advice, much appreciated.
I've come to the conclusion (thanks to your input) that the Drifter is not worth trading in for a 'possibly' inferior product. I'm very happy with the Drifter as a guitar but it doesn't look like the instrument the Shads used. If Burns ever produce another 'quality' Legend in the future I may think again but at the moment I will stick with my Drifter.
Thanks again
Glen
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Post by glyderslead on Jan 23, 2020 16:01:29 GMT
Glad you're sorted out and happy Glen.
Roger...sorry about the name mix up......
Phil....It's good that your tremolo arm is ok and stays firm, but I expect a number of people suffer from the nut, that holds the tension on the arm, comes loose from time to time.
Good wishes to all
Mick
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Post by jontie on Jan 23, 2020 16:36:17 GMT
you have a PM
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Post by bor64 on Jan 23, 2020 18:32:23 GMT
Glen,
I've 5 Marvin's a '65-'80-2x'04-'05.
Only the '04 British build CS sounds as the original '65 only louder.
The '80 "pre serie" and the '05 Shadows Custom are not the same as the original...they have maple necks.
The '04 China 2004 Anniversary Marvin and the later '64 series, sounds nothing as a original Burns Marvin.
Because it's know the forces inside Burns London decide to build the China Marvins with different wood and pu's to aim for a strat sound...So they reckon it was usable for a bigger market!!!
The genuine British build Marvin (Legend) is a good guitar and a serious instrument!
Cheers Rob
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Post by rogercook on Jan 23, 2020 19:11:27 GMT
Hi Rob,
What necks did the originals have - beech? Also what was the difference in pickups etc? I know the trem was dural rather than aluminium and the res o tubes were smaller or.
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Post by bor64 on Jan 23, 2020 20:23:11 GMT
Hi Roger,
They should be beech indeed, but Burns used sometimes different wood if the allocated parts/wood weren't in stock.
The original baseplate are Duralurem indeed... the China ones are not engraved either....the text is embossed with a large stamp.
The tubes are different, the ball ends are deeper in the replica tubes in the originals there's more string end in the tubes.
The modern China pu's are voiced differently they sound like regular strat pu's, so I reckon different amount windings , magnets etc.
The 2004 Anniversary China Marvin's have also maple necks with rosewood boards.
Cheers Rob
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Post by rogercook on Jan 23, 2020 21:32:41 GMT
Thanks Rob,
I have a 2004 Chinese model and as you say the pickups sound very much like a Strat. I'm wondering whether to change them for something closer to the 1964 voicing. I might make up some different bridge tubes too.
Roger
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Post by glyderslead on Jan 23, 2020 23:14:07 GMT
Well Glen, we are back on track with your original posting - the sound, so, just how do the later Burns guitars sound compared to the originals?
Let’s hope someone with access to both can post an A. : B sound test for us.
As for me, I quite like the Straty sound of mine. I also like the sound of my Marquee, which sounds somewhat similar and is also a great player, that I picked up for £190. In brand new condition.
Can anyone help with a sound check?
Cheers
Mick
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Post by philc on Jan 24, 2020 9:01:31 GMT
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Post by andyj47 on Jan 24, 2020 10:13:17 GMT
might just as well have a strat fellas ! you know it makes sense !
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Post by philc on Jan 24, 2020 10:30:03 GMT
Not if you want a Burns sound  |
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Post by peterbower on Jan 24, 2020 12:19:12 GMT
It seems these days Hank preferers Fenders
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Post by rogercook on Jan 24, 2020 15:28:59 GMT
Phil. Your Burns sounds very like Hank's. I can't get that same sound on my 2004 model. What pickup selection, amp, echo etc did you use? Bossa Roo in particular.
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Post by philc on Jan 24, 2020 16:15:13 GMT
Roger, they were recorded many years ago with my AC30H2 and top boost channel, no echo and I think just a small amount of ambiance reverb, I can't remember which pickup I used but it sounds like the neck to me.
Phil
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Post by rogercook on Jan 24, 2020 17:15:27 GMT
The neck pickup on my 2004 is closest probably but it doesn't have that woody, nasal sound that yours has.
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Post by bor64 on Jan 24, 2020 19:57:55 GMT
Roger....
That's why you need a proper British build Burns Marvin with the right style parts and not a China Marvin that on purpose is build with types of wood and pu's that are specially chosen to sound like a strat...
My original like the one Phil has, and my green burst NOS British build Marvin that sound too.
The post '92 British build Marvin's/Legends are better build then most of the original 60's ones...
Cheers Rob
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Post by barryg on Jan 24, 2020 20:24:35 GMT
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Post by philc on Jan 25, 2020 8:47:54 GMT
What needs to be remembered is that practically all of Hanks guitar sounds will have had post eq etc, so the sound coming from his amp might not be 100% the same as what's on the records.
Phil
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Post by rogercook on Jan 25, 2020 9:09:02 GMT
Indeed Phil, but I don't think the basic sound from the 2004 guitars is anything like the same. Clearly there are lots of variables, neck and body woods, dural trem, but a reasonably easy starting point would be changing the pickups. Is there any info around on winding resistances, magnet types and sizes etc? I have a set of Entwistle noiseless that I intend to try.
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