Time To Give It Up

[shadowhankron]

Hi

I think it`s time I realised to give up being a Guitarist, I know how to play Guitar, but trying to get the Hank Sound and enjoy it seems distant. In the past few weeks I bought a New Amp VT 30 Vox, Zoom G2.1u Effects Pedal, and EFTP Patches, had my Fender Strat ( American ) 1999 Serviced with new,,,, Elixer Strings.. but All I get each time is a Guitar Going out of Tune and a Mixed Sound with the VT 30 and EFTP.... I have tried many Comments here from you Kind Friends but it just dont work out. That wreched G string has a sound thats Dead and dull most Times. I wish I could at least get 2 or 3 Shadows numbers right. Oh Well..

regards

Ronnie

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
Reading your post makes me feel a bit sad and depressed. You know there is a problem with your gear and you seem to be blaming your own ability to play even though you said you can play.
I am sure if the G string issue at least can be solved, then we can help to sort out the rest, bit by bit.
Does the G string have a dead sound on all fretted notes, or some of them, or only on the open string?
Regards,
Charlie

[shadowhankron]

Hi Charlie


G String sounds dull on all melody lines.. Sorry to have sounded depressing but It makes me annoyed that I cannot reach some of the quality of the great guys here playing on the sound files, and the excellent Patches you supplied me.
Thanks for reply Charlie

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
Slacken the G string and then examine it carefully for any sharp kinks. If it is damaged, try to straighten it if possible, or replace it.
Always check that new strings are not damaged before fitting them.
While the string is slackened, look carefully at the bridge saddle where the string contacts it. If it is dirty or has any rough parts, it needs attention.
If you are using a plain G string there isn't much that can be wrong with it except for damage as above. If a wound string, it is always advisable to make a bend in the string a bit beyond where it needs to go into the tuning post, before cutting it to length. Cutting first can allow the wrap to loosen and it will never sound good if that happens.
Regards,
Charlie

[kipper]

ronnie i think weve all been there mate. even if you cant follow charlies tips youself take it to a good luther and get it set up. but i`m sure if you follow what charlie says you will get there. if it was an easy thing do were would the challage be. keep your head up its all very possible. peter

[5tratocaster]

You could always try playing '1861'. It works a treat with a dull 3rd string.
But seriously though, you seem to have the right gear to get you close, so start with the amp settings.
I have a VT30 and find the best sound is actually on the 'Tweed 4x10' or 'AC15' settings. The AC30TB sounds too bright to me in my smallish room.
I have the Gain control at about 10 0'clock, Volume on maximum, Treble and Middle at 12 o'clock and Bass close to minimum (adjust to taste). Use the Master Volume to suit your room size.
You don't say what gauge strings you are using, but I would suggest not less than 11s to get the best sound.
Try a tiny bit of Vaseline under the string tee(s), on the nut and on the bridge saddles. I use the end of a cocktail stick to apply it. It should allow you to use the trem arm without pings and without the guitar going out of tune.
Finally, try adjusting the height of your pickups. It can make a great difference to the sound.
If your 3rd string is still dull after trying the advice in other posts and there appears to be nothing wrong with it, take it back to where you had it set up and get them to look at it again. It could be that one or more of the frets need dressing.
Good luck and keep trying.
Geoff

[Deleted]

HI RONNIE , your US strat??? has it the original p/ups ,if so the sraggered poles are for a non-wound G!! and if it is the case you will be better off with a plain G!!& or a set of vintage P/UPS, such as ''JC-VINTAGE'' & or ''C/S-F50's'' ..

But don't despair as many of us are in the same ''boat-mate'' are you at all technical-minded???& don't mind working on your guitar your self??? If so there are a few good thing's you can do ,As I also have a 2000 US -STD that sounded weak etc but after some mod's now is very good ,''LET'S-KNOW'' & we all can help you with some mod's!!!..

THERE IS SO MUCH TALENT HERE ON THIS SITE ,player's who leave me for dead but also some great Technical advice you will not find elsewhere & it is ''free-for you & all''

HELP IS AT HAND RONNIE .................CHEERS ALL ...........''aussie-barry''..

[ianrigby]

Hi Ronnie,
You are not alone. I had the same problem, not once but twice! I had purchased a batch of d'addario 11s, the G string sounded dull "almost dead". I changed the saddle, and the nut. still dull, changed the new strings for another set, no different. Turned out to be a bad batch. Finally got some decent strings on it, and it transformed the guitar when plugged in. Otherwise it still sounds dull, thats down to the original construction of the guitar. It could be the quarter sawn neck, or neck joint. My son bought a hand painted guitar for £150, just for the neck. Turned out to be a 64 strat! sounds like an acoustic when not plugged in, and like a vintage strat when it is. I think the common denominator here is the guitar, take it to a quality shop for set up, if there is a fault they will find it.
Good luck, and keep at it. As someone said earlier, we have all been there.

Ian

[shadowhankron]

Hi
Charlie I am using Plain "G" strings Elixir .010--.046 gauge. Also strings were Stretched on re-Stringing in Music Shop. Have been told Wound Strings .011 upwards might be better. As I know nothing about this subject only what feed back I get here from these Kind Guys.
I feel I might not get the right way to play Guitar or Sound as others do here.. My return to the Guitar after many yerars was due to this Fantastic Site you created Charlie. Listening to Members here similar age to myself ( Retired ) It got me that Buzz that age and music are universal. But this past weeks I take out the Guitar and Gear start playing then BANG.. the Out of Tune and Dead String. Most out of tune appears on 1st (E)...2nd (B) ..3rd (G) strings, Then I have that VT 30 AMP and ZOOM G2.1u EFTP not blending well.
Thanks Guys for your Interest and Help. Sorry about being Down about this Matter I mention.

Regards

Ronnie

[olemuso]

A common cause of strings "pinging" out of tune is the ball end not being the correct fit in the holes in the trem block.
Remedy1/ Drill out the holes by half a mm
Remedy2/ Use Fender Bullet strings, the end is bullet shaped and therefore fits the trem block perfectly.
Next is worn saddles - check them and see if the strings have worn grooves in them, if so you need new saddles.
Then it could be at the nut - using heavier strings can sometimes mean they will bind in the nut slots and will move periodically with trem action - "ping" it says, then goes out of tune. Have the nut slots widened or use lighter guage strings.
I`ve only used a luthier once to set up a guitar of mine (my current Strat) and that was cos I couldn`t be bothered to do it myself. I must admit he set it up better than I could have imagined. I can do a full octave trem dive (low E string) and it whips right back in tune. Ace
Don`t give up mate. If I was trying to get "That Sound" I would be just as despondent as you, but I ain`t! I just want sounds that I like - and most times I get `em.
Pecker up Ron

[grip]

Hi Ronnie,

I'm so sorry to read here of your frustrations. Do you have the means of making a recording of any sort so that we can hear what your sound is like? That would be a good starting point to talk you through Amp/Guitar,Effects settings. All of the advice you have been given above is spot on (but I really doubt the Ian can do a "Full Octave" dive on his tremolo unless the arm is a broomstick ;D)

I really hope you can work your way through this glitch, as there is so much pleasure to be had from making music.

I hope you have a great and tuneful Christmas

Kind regards,


grip

[shadowhankron]

Hi Olemuso

I did not understand most of what you explained in your reply as it was too much Techinical Info for me, I know you mean well, thats why I now feel I am not good enough for the Forum.
I dont even know what a luthier is, as here in Dublin most Music shops would not be that qualified on Guitars. Thanks for your Reply.

Also Grip Thanks for reply and NO I would not be Comfortable posting my Music .. and dont know either how to send or load it on this site.

kind regards

Ronnie

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
The plain G should not be a problem. A wound string is likely to sound more dead than a plain one unless the string itself is the problem.
There should be nothing wrong with D'Addario 10-46. I could use them and it would sound OK, because that is similar to the gauges I use anyway.
Assuming you can make recordings (you haven't said you can't), you can make a wav file mixdown of a multitrack recording, or just export a single track from the recording program (which is already a wav file). Wav files are too large to send elsewhere but can be converted to mp3 files. There is a good free program called CDex that does a good job. When you have an mp3, you can send it to my email if you don't want to post on the site. At this stage I'm not even really interested in how you play, only that the guitar is sounding right. No one can play well if there is a problem with an instrument. I'm sure we can help you to sort out a guitar problem even if it means getting someone else to do the work, we just need to find the cause.
When you make a test recording, I would like you to play a few notes on all the strings, and then every single note on the G string (including the open string note) so I can try to figure out what the problem is. The recording doesn't have to be anything special at all, it is just a test of the guitar. You don't even need to use an amp or amp sim for the test.
A luthier is someone who can make a guitar and/or other fretted instruments out of raw materials, but in practise, some or even most of them buy the parts and paint and assemble the parts.
The idea of this forum is for people to share information so that those who need it can learn from it.
Regards,
Charlie

[olemuso]

Dec 15, 2009 21:10:39 GMT grip said:

(but I really doubt the Ian can do a "Full Octave" dive on his tremolo unless the arm is a broomstick ;D)
grip

The proof of the pudding, so they say -
www.4shared.com/file/173898396/e6a3cf01/Octave.html

[grip]

Dec 15, 2009 22:45:15 GMT @olemuso said:

The proof of the pudding, so they say -
www.4shared.com/file/173898396/e6a3cf01/Octave.html

Just spat me tea all over the monitor ;D ;D ;D

Kind regards,


grip

[ianrigby]

Hi Ronnie,
Is there a Shadows club near you? The members there would be only too happy to help. It does not matter how good your playing is, or even if you are just starting. They can help you sort out problems and get the most out of your equipment, don't be afraid to ask. We have all had to get help and advice at some point. If you don't know where your local club is, I am sure someone on here or shadowsland does.

Ian

[shadowhankron]

Hi Ian

No Ian there are no Shadows Clubs here in Ireland that I can ask for advice etc.. not like the UK and Europe where these Clubs are available, thats why I felt when I joined here I was somewhat near to getting along with my music, but somehow a lot of info here is far beyond my knowledge. I played Lead Guitar in small group 40 yrs ago but never was informed about gauges etc of strings... if a string broke then it was replaced by same name string but the cheapest... so I now feel I wasted my money on this new gear I bought.
I do Thank all you guys for your kind advice,, but in fairness some of it is too techinical.


regards

Ronnie

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
It was the same everywhere 40 years ago, there wasn't the technical knowledge that exists now with players. It seems that knowledge started to grow sometime around the 70s. Before then, most people who didn't like a guitar would sell it and buy another.
If there is something you don't understand, you only have to ask.
Regards,
Charlie

[grip]

Hi Ronnie,

Don't even think about the technical stuff at this stage, you're into playing music. Just go back to basics and take it one small step at a time, you've got all the time in the world now you are retired

Start by addressing the string and tuning issues (the two are probably related), when that is sorted you will feel a little more comfortable with things and can then move onto what it sounds like through the amp.

We are all willing you to get somewhere with this and not throw the towel in.


Kind regards,


grip

[geronimo7476]

Hi Ronnie, I started The Shadows Appreciation Club of Ireland a few years ago and then branched out with Shadows Ireland Guitar Club. These clubs went well until recently as numbers dwindled. I guess the pressure was too much for most people to actually get into their cars and make a short trip to the city centre, but that's another story.
Thing is there are still people round in Ireland who love the Shadows and are willing to give what it takes. I'm one of them and I'm in Leixlip, not far from Dublin city. I set up all my own guitars and will set yours up for you. I will also help you to get the best possible Shadows sound out of your guitar. Just contact me by email and we can work something out.
All the best, CC

[asimmd]

Hi Ronnie

I with all due respect,I can't believe you are considering giving up playing for the reasons stated.
I want to get on a plane and come over to Ireland and show you myself.

I understand it can be difficult for someone who is not technically minded,but there are always way's and means of offering and giving help and advice.

Ronnie,please take geronimo7476's kind offer,and at least let Him try to help you out of your predicament.You have nothing to lose,and you may gain that little bit of knowledge that saves your guitar playing.

Let us know how you get on.

Alan

[BarryH]

Hi Ronnie,

There's some great advice being passed on through the site, take a few minutes and read it all again.

If you do get the chance to visit Charles in Dublin, you'll be in for a great treat. Also while you're in the same area you may like to visit MC Guitars. A year or so ago they supplied me with a strat and the set up on that guitar was one of the best I've ever had. Although I only spoke to them by phone, everything I'd asked for was done really well.

Stick with, you'll be pleased you did in the end.

Cheers
Barry

www.mcguitars.co.uk/

[John Haldane]

Hi Ronnie
I see from one of your posts you have a friend who owns a music shop, where you had the guitar setup ,could you not take it back and see if they can help more with your problem.
Take care
John H

[olemuso]

Ronnie.
I`m not sure if you`re able to do this?
Can you video yourself demonstrating and explaining the main problems you`re having, then post it on Youtube?
A (video) picture is worth a thousand words and I`m sure some of us would immediately realise what`s going on.
Good luck mate - don`t give up

[garystrat]

Hi Ronnie

I use Elixir .010 - .052 strings, most people I have re-strung a guitar for have now changed to these too, they sound good and string life is better than most. When changing strings I do it one at a time starting from the top "E" string, cleaning the fretboard and pick guard in the direction I am moving in so as not to contaminate the new strings below (taking all strings off at once can mean having to adjust neck, which I try to avoid). Make sure the string is well seated at the bridge and put a light machine oil on the bridge with a cotton bud (I tend to lightly oil the whole bridge, which stops it rusting), You can get a small tube of white graphite guitar lube for the nut, I paint it in with a very fine quality art brush and use my finger to just clear surplus. I find the distance between two string posts is about the right additional string length to get the correct turns on the string post, too little will cause slippage, too much can put sufficient winds to take the string low enough to cut into the neck just beyond the nut and can cause binding.

This method seems to have solved one or two problems, including a young friend who was getting a ping and odd sounds from the trem arm of a custom shop Marvin Strat (we found it was coming from the strings themselves). The guitar is truly mouth watering, with a wonderful build quality and finish, but it just goes show that a few simple steps can make all the difference.

I very much hope that you will get beyond your present crisis of confidence and frustration, there is so much pleasure and friendship that you will find from the music. If we are truthful, many of us have been where you are now, and even those that do play and pretty much get "that sound" still find find great pleasure in pushing the boundaries of perfection and comparisons with one another.

Best wishes

Gary

[Alcopop]

YOR PICKUPS COULD BE TO HIGH DROP THEM DOWN TO THE SCRATCH PLATE THEN

TAKE THEM UP A BIT AT A TIME STARTING WITH THE TREMOLO BRIDGE PICKUP TILL

YOU HEAR THE G STRING RING,IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE STRING IS TO CLOSE TO

THE MAGNET.KEEPING THE PICKUP LOWER ON THE BOTTOM THICK E STRING.

[russjsmith]

I have nothing to add to the brilliant advice given but how wonderful to see everybody rallying round to help someone else. Its what this site is all about- keep up the good work.

Russ

[shadowhankron]

Hi

I am over joyed at the complete support from everyone here with advice etc. I have not touched the Guitar since my open Thread here. I will over the next few days hopefully try to bring the Guitar back to my Friends Music Shop to get checked out and I think he Knows Derek Nelson ( Luthier ) which I never heard of before.(Luthier )
Doing MP3 or Video of myself is not an option at the moment. As I dont feel confident letting you hear my guitar, I do have MP3 tunes of Shadows Music that I played on a Yamaha Tyros 2 Keyboard but as this is a Guitar Site, it dont count as Playing Shadows Music.... When and " If " I get this Guitar setup right I will need extra guidance balancing this Vox VT 30 and Zoom G2.1u Pedal EFTP to get the correct Sound I require. I have plenty of Backing Tracks Purchased and Downloaded plus can Create some type of Backing Tracks on my Tyros 2 into MP3 if needed. Again THANK YOU everyone for your Concern and advice. I now know I have real " Virtual " Friends here on CHARLIE HALL & FRIENDS Site. Thank You Charlie too for your great help.

Regards

Ronnie

[john]

Hi Ronnie

Mate, reading through the messages you have more backup than the National Irish Football team here. So you getting the "sound" is no reason to pull the pin so to speak. Mate I'm predominately a bass player who fools around with my Strat, I get a couple of songs that I feel "close" but most don't come within a bulls roar, the main thing is satisfaction I get out of it As you can read you have friends here that will go out of their way to help you as you can see.
Ronnie there are guitarist on this site, posting sound files who I will say with honesty and conviction every bit or better than Hank, some of their sounds just blow me away, just beautiful with their technique and mastery over the guitar.
Trouble pops up, ask, and you will have an avalanche of help.
Keep punching

Aussie John

[John Haldane]

Hi Ronnie
Hank has had many different sounds over the decade's, so to try and capture "That sound" is not allways possible.
Take care
John H