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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 22, 2009 2:22:36 GMT
Hi Tony,
There is some further info on this topic in the "FAQ Relating to Hank and The Shadows" board under the topic "Shadows Amplifiers". There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer as yet!
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 20, 2009 12:00:41 GMT
Hi Roger and Alan,
Thanks for your messages, I have e-mailed the circuit mods and a diagram of where the components are located.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 17, 2009 4:19:34 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I have no idea what the brown glaze would be. However, that's the same U4 chip that Alan said looked like it was getting cooked, but it is spread over adjacent parts of the board from C3 to R14 as well so I doubt that it is a problem with the chip. A bit of a mystery, particularly as you say it appears on other boards. This would seem to rule out the service technician dribbling some of his coffee there!
Best Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 17, 2009 1:39:00 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for sending the pic, it was really clear!
The mod shown is the same as the one I traced from the Rev E board with only one difference: R10 is 1k5 whereas it is 1k on the Rev E board. This is of little significance, though Q5 will be switched on a bit harder in the Rev E version and I would probably use the 1k value. The other components (2k2, 4k7 resistors and removal of C1) are the same. I also note that the 10v rail is picked up from R51 and not the cathode of D4 which I used, but again of no significance.
I also noted the track cut between R13 and R11, which is required for the mod.
Looks like we finally have the answer to the missing pages of the service manual!
Best Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 16, 2009 2:06:34 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I would be interested to see how the official mod differs from the Rev E mod that I did, if you should get the time to trace it out. It was interestring thet some Q2's have the mod, even though they still have the early ROM.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 15, 2009 14:12:04 GMT
Hi Barry and others,
If you e-mail me I will send a schematic of the original part of the reset circuit and the modified (Rev E) version. Also a diagram of the board showing where the components are located. (I can't find a simple way to include them in this message).
This mod should not be tried unless you are very confident in your electronic abilities since you could cause severe damage your Q2!!
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 14, 2009 1:56:43 GMT
Hi Charlie,
It might depend upon whether he has a Rev A or C mother board and whether these already have the reset mod, or whether it is a Rev E board which would be OK.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 8, 2009 2:05:09 GMT
Hu Tony,
The "Reverberation" control o the Echomatic 1 (labelled "Effects" on most units) was a 6 position switch that brought in different numbers and combinations of heads. There was no separate "reverberation" as such, just the multiple repeats merging together. The later tape units also had a push button labelled "reverb" and this just switched the feedback on giving a more reverb type of sound.
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 2, 2009 3:30:55 GMT
Hi Charlie,
The mod to the reset circuit did solve the loss of memory problem on the Rev A Q2 with the 2.01 ROM. I suggest that it be made to any Rev A board that has the upgraded ROM.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on May 15, 2009 9:45:36 GMT
Hi,
Hank still has his last two Vox AC30/6 TB's (dating from around the early-mid 1970's I would guess) as well as the black Matchless DC30 head/box and red Matchless Clubman 35 head/box. As one would expect he also has a number of other amps.
I have done a bit of work on some of these from time to time to keep them in good working order.
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Mar 10, 2009 11:47:09 GMT
Stuart, no stand but then I'm not complaining!! Regards, Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Mar 9, 2009 12:55:09 GMT
Hi Stuart,
Yes, I got one of the signed limited editions. Mine is #372, what's your's?
Bets Regards,
paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Mar 9, 2009 12:20:07 GMT
Hi,
My lovely wife got me the Deluxe version of the Vox Guide Book for my recent birthday and I think it is worth every cent (including postage!) of the cost. It is an excellent production absolutely full of details about all of the JMI Vox amps. The Deluxe version has a supplement containing the circuit diagrams for all of the amps, echoes, vibratos, reverbs etc., reproduced in period style on large format "aged" paper with blueprint type printing. Just the packaging itself is a work of art!
There's a great section on The Shadows involvement with Vox (as well as the Beatles, Stones, Brian May and many others) detailing their amps and also echo units. It includes some rare photos (eg The Shadows at Abbey Road c1964 with a Vox Long Tom in the background! Were they doing Flinge Bunt I wonder, which seems to have a Long Tom echo???).
There are a couple of inaccuracies that I picked up, but the author is committed to keeping it as accurate as possible and there is a section on his web site where updates/corrections (of which there are few) are available.
It might cost as much as cheap guitar when landed, but what a great read and superb reference!!
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 27, 2009 2:14:47 GMT
Hi Charlie, Alan,
Thanks for the info, I have e-mailed John to see if the "All the Gear..." site can be updated,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 26, 2009 14:14:37 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Regarding the "All The Gear..." web site, I believe that the drum echo units shown in black and white are all Echomatic 2 (as per the discussion in the Shadows Echoes thread on this site). I would like to try to contact the owner of the web site to see if a correction is possible but there are no contact details provided. Does anybody know who in NZ runs the site and how they can be contacted?
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 26, 2009 5:16:16 GMT
Hi,
Regarding the first use of the Burns guitars, they were certainly used in Flingel Bunt recorded on 25/2/64, but, from the sound, also possibly on In The Mood/ Temptation/the Lonely Bull all of which were recorded on 11/2/64? Can anyone confirm?
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 25, 2009 14:15:52 GMT
Hi Charlie, Hope this works. Here's some photos and my guess as to the type of unit: Vox (Meazzi) Echomatic 2 (modified): Meazzi Echomatic 1: Vox (Meazzi) Echomatic 1: Echomatic 2: . Regards, paul
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 25, 2009 7:24:25 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for that info, it fills in a number of gaps! I have seen a few different photos of the drum Meazzi's: one is characterised by a large black knob in the centre of the front panel with 6 switchable positions and so it is clearly an Echomatic 1. Another has 3 inputs on the lower left side and no 6-position control, but a variable "effect" control (amongst the others) and so is presumably the Echomatic 2. However, the photo in Roberto's book of an Echomatic 1 doesn't have the large black 6-way Reverberation" knob (though that control is in the same centre location in the pic), and I have seen reference to the varispeed control being adjusted with a "large black knob".
I have also seeen photos of a Vox variant (presumably the Echomatic 2 since the 6-way reverberation control is not there, but the effects one is) and another of a similar unit but with some additional controls located in the mesh screen above the rest of the controls. Hank said that he didn't recognise either of these, but did the one of the Echomatic 1. I don't know how to include photos so it might sound a bit confusing, nevertheless can you shed any further light on the appearances of the different units and possibly post a pic of each?
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 25, 2009 7:01:44 GMT
Hi Barry,
Just your summary of the data would be great if copies of the original is difficult.
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 25, 2009 6:59:08 GMT
Hi Alan,
Checking the videos of their live performances and data in "The Vox Book" seems to indicate that at least two different AC15 models were used in 1959-60 and the original AC30's (probably the prototypes with TV fronts) were used from late 1959-1960. The AC30/4 with the modern front then appeared in 1960, the AC30/6 in late 1960-61. The AC30/6 "Treble" (some times called "top boost", but not to be confused with the later Top Boost variation that used additional circuitry) came out in 1961-62 and the Top Boost as an add-on in 1961 and then as an integral part of the chassis in 1964.
This is consistent with Justin's post and also yours, with the possible exception that The Vox Book claims that Apache was recorded with the AC30/4 and so that variant was in use in 1960, not 1961 as in your list. As you say, there were almost certainly periods of overlap where different models were used to suit the occasion.
Looking forward to your comments on Hank's and Bruce's guitars!
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 25, 2009 6:26:44 GMT
BUT I have a copy of ''shadow's-foot tapping'' by gearge geddes,,& the equipment used is listed , I I have not seen mentioned is a ''danelectro''& green sunburst ''burn's'' until stolen in 1971 from there van? ,,I will try to make a listing including dates & post ,that is if no one else has the ''geddes'' biography? ???published in ''glasgow''sept 1978 ?? CHEERS all ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,barry..''ps It lists gear of all member's lead ,ryhtm,bass & drum's? ?....[/quote] Hi Barry, It would be great if you could give us the info out of Geddes' book, including the rhythm, bass and drums in the other threads. I doubt that many of us has this book. Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 14:52:56 GMT
Hi,
again in order too get the ball rolling I offer the following (and I am sure that Charlie and others will correct and add more):
1. 1960 - 1961 Meazzi Echomatic 1 (not sure if 5 or 6 head, model F. G or J??) Identified by characteristic pattern of echoes. First used on Record: Apache in June 1960; Last used on record: Blue Star in Feb 1961?
Was variable speed ever used as claimed a while ago in Shadsfax Vol 24? (eg the echoes on Gee Whiz It's You recorded on the Cliff Richard show fit the Echomatic 1 spacing, but only if the speed is reduced by about 20%).
2. 1961 - 1964 Meazzi Echomatic 2 Identified by characteristic pattern of echoes. First used on record: Find Me a Golden Street in Jan 1961?; Last used on record: The Miracle in July 1964?
3. 1964 - 1975? Binson Echorec (models?) First used on record: Zambesi in Feb 1964?? Last used on record:??
4. 1975 - 1979 Meastro Echoplex (possibly overlapping with Binson?) Cited in article in Sept 1977 Guitar Player interviewing Hank.
5. 1978 - 19?? Roland 210 Recordings:?? Seen on Stage?
6. 1978? Roland 301 Recordings?? Seen at 1978 London Palladium
7. 19??- 1997 Roland 555 Recordings?? seen on stage
8. 1997 - 2000? Alesis Q2 EFTP Recordings:? Live Shows:
9. 2000 - Alesis Q20 EFTP Recordings: Live Shows: The Final Tour etc
10 2008 - TVS3 Royal Variety Performance Guitar man (selected tracks)
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 13:55:35 GMT
Hi again, to get the ball rolling I have copied the following information from a post by Justin Daish (maybe someone could add dates etc?), and what about the Selmers they used at the beginning?): This is my type of thread . I've done a quick bit bit of "research" on YouTube, searching out certain clips that feature the rarer amps the band used in the early years. The amplifiers changed frequently as Dick Denney (Vox's chief designer) travelled on the road with the Shadows so he could discuss with them what they needed and make alterations to his designs. Here we go then, with my brief Shadows/Vox history... First of all two tone "TV Front" AC15s (most likely the Circuit Two version) were used. Unfortunatley I don't know a huge amount about these amplifiers. This is one of a handful of clips where they can be seen: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca3CPoIE-04 Then the lads obtained some slightly different AC15s; still a "TV Front" version but not two tone. This time they were just a plain cream, probably decorated with the early Vox diamond pattern. I am sure these AC15s would have been among the first Vox Circuit Three amplifiers. These I'd love to know whether these were ever produced comercially, I've certainly never seen one "in the flesh" before: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuD3N1K_Rjg&feature=related Then, in pusuit of more volume for theatre shows, Hank requested that Dick Denney design an AC15 with two speakers. Soon after, twelve AC30 prototypes were made, all for the Shadows (it is thought they served different purposes, one set of amps used for recording, one set for stage use). The "TV Front" design was kept and these definitely featured the diamond patterned paper covering. These were the first of the AC30/4 range and are now the most collectible, as the AC30 TV was never put into production. It is unclear just how many of those twelve original amps are still in existence although I know of at least three that are still about. One appeared on the well known auction site around a year ago (it had been recovered in black basketweave) and I cannot remember how the auction ended. I remember one lucky ShadowMusic member saying Hank's old stage AC30/4 had passed through his hands although I cannot remember if he said whether he still owns it today. One is now owned by Phil Kelly who used it at Shadowmania 2007. If there are any more out there I'd love to know of them. Here they are being used on stage: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX9AACWlk7I&feature=related The AC30/4 was produced for a limited period with the then modern split-front, the typical AC30 design that we know and love. I am unsure if they were made in black or just in tan. Then the first AC30/6 was made, featuring a copper coloured control panel instead of black. It was the first of the larger Vox amps to not employ an EF86 valve which was considered too impractical to keep using as it was so microphonic. The Treble model was then made due to Hank wanting still to be heard above the rest of the band on stage and can be heard on many of the recordings made whilst Licorice was with the group. I think this the period when the Bass version of the amp began to be produced. Up till this point the bassist had always used identical amps to the two guitarists. The Top Boost preamp was then designed and retro-fitted to Hank's AC30, and soon followed the famous AC30 model where the 12AX7 (Top Boost) valve was built into the amp as standard. You may be interested to know that Brian Locking owns John Rostill's old AC30 and it is currently stored in Scarborough with Ian Harper. I have acquired all the above information by word of mouth. I apologise if I have misremembered any facts. JD.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 13:44:45 GMT
Sorry, I forgot to include the title of the thread!!
the following was recently posted by Jim N on Shadowmusic. I hope I haven't broken any laws by copying it, but then they can't send me to the Colonies, I am already there!
In order (as far as the photographic trail shows), Bruce's early electric guitars with The Drifters/Shadows up to mid-1961 were:
a) a Hofner/Framus styled non-cut cello guitar with one pickup (this is seen in a pic in the Mike Read book) until early 1959 - this being the most mysterious of Bruce's Drifters guitars;
Hank's discarded late-thirties Vega (USA) cello guitar with one Rickenbacker pickup mounted near the bridge (this presumably after Hank bought the Antoria - he had owned the Vega since Newcastle). The Vega was used by Bruce in "Expresso Bongo", so it is very well-evidenced - used until late 1959; the same model was at one time played by jazz guitar pioneer Charlie Christian;
c) the sunburst Jazzmaster, which appears to have been a gift (rather than a loan) from Jennings - used until the summer of 1960 at least;
d) a blonde post-1959 Telecaster - which evidence suggests was loaned by Jennings - it was seen in use on stage (and TV) 1960/61; it may or may not be the same example seen in the cover shots for the "Shadows To The Fore" EP and "The Shadows" LP/EPs; the fact that Bruce was seen with a Telecaster elsewhere does not of itself prove that the "photographic prop" Telecaster was not exactly as described;
e) the Fiesta Red r/n Strat from March/April 1961, as already explained by Alan McK.
Occasionally during that era, Bruce was seen with a sunburst Strat (eg, on the rear-cover of the "Me And My Shadows" LP - and possibly even on the rear-cover shots of the Shads' own first LP). It now seems that this belonged to Chas McDavitt and was used as a loan guitar whenever a string broke - if Chas happened to be on the same bill.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 13:34:24 GMT
Hi, To get the ball rolling, I offer the following hopelessly incomplete list (and please change format as you think best): 1. Antoria (model??) When used: up to 1959? Source of information: Hank in interview? 2. Vega (one Rickenbacker pickup near the bridge) Up to 1959 Source: Post by JN (any more info?) 3. Fender Strat (Fiesta Red, maple fingerboard, number ? ) When Used: 1959 -? Source: "Rock N'Roll" by BW, various interviews with Hank and Bruce 4. Fender Strat (Fiesta Red, rosewood fingerboard, number ? ) When used: 1961 - ? Source: The Young Ones? 5. Gretsch (Country Gent) When used: 1961 on Nivram and A Girl Like You Source: Hank. 6. Burns (Shadows...) When used: 1964 - 1971? Source:? 7.Fender Strat (White, rosewood fingerboard, number ? ) When used:? Source:? 8. Fender Strat (Black, rosewood fingerboard?, various pickups, number ? ) When Used:? Source:? 9. Current three Fender Custom Shop Strats. When used: ? Source:? 10. Various other acoustics? All comments and contributions welcome! Regards, Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 12:56:43 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the opportunity to bring together our collective knowledge of all things to do with The Shadows.
One particular interest is the gear that The Shadows have used over their long existence . I thought that maybe we could develop threads to cover the guitars used by Hank, Bruce and Jet (and subsequent bass palyers) and also the amps they used and echo units they used at various times. It would also be interesting to include whatever evidence we could cite (eg "as seen on the Cliff Richard show in 196X" etc, or as detailed in some book or article or even as seen in live peformance by someone.
I would thus like to suggest that we develop various threads such as: Guitars of the Shadows: Hank Guitars of the Shadows: Bruce Guitars of the Shadows: Bass Drums of the Shadows (anyone??) Amps used by the Shadows Echo units used by the Shadows.
Everyone is then invited to add their bits of information and build up a valuable knowledge base for all Shadows fans.
The format of the threads should be OK to get the ball rolling, but as the knowledge builds maybe someone could put it in a more comprehensive format, such as a table or spreadsheet? To get the ball rolling I will try to start a couple of these with my incomplete knowledge and hope that others will also pick up the challenge.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 23, 2009 12:39:11 GMT
Hi ,
The gain distribution through the different amplifier stages is indeed interesting as it determines the "overdriven" sound of the amplifier. As you say, an EF86 as normally biased in an amp has a high gain and one might expect that it could start to overload if driven by a guitar signal as high as 1 volt. Similarly, the top boost channel has two halves of a 12AX7 in series giving a higher total gain than the single EF86, but the loss in the tone stack which follows makes the gains of the two channels roughly the same. However, the second 12AX7 is working quite hard and would certainly overload on a 1V input signal. Under such circumstances one would expect the different operating curves of the pentode and triode would lead to different sound colouration, particularly near the clipping point. It is thus likely that the two channels will sound different if driven that hard, but at lower signal levels (which seem to be more the norm with Shadows music and the lack of booster pedals etc), they both sound very similar.
This is probably because one has to consider also the dynamic range of the phase inverter and output stages. In some cases the preamp starts to overload first, but in others phase inverter starts to overload first and in others the output stages reach saturation first. All of these considerations lead to the perceived dynamic characteristics of the amp and whether it produces pleasant or unpleasant sound when driven hard. Even this is partly in the ear of the beholder as some prefer output stage saturation and some prefer preamp saturation. It's all part of the fascinating "art" of good amplifier design.
Getting back to VOX amps and Shadows music, I think that the output stage is actually the first to start sagging and saturating and adding colour to the sound. This would explain why the listening tests don't seem to reveal much difference between the EF86 and top boost preamps, if all else (ie the tone shaping networks) is equal.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 21, 2009 15:33:27 GMT
Hi again,
This is another example of the benefit of a "FAQ" (or somesuch) section. I recall that MeBHank did a great analysis last year of "what amp was used when" from YouTube videos of the various early live performances by The Shadows and there is a lot of similar information from various other sources. What about it Charlie?? Three interesting possibilities could be the chronology of guitars, echo units and amplifiers used by the Shadows and if you or someone else started it off we could all contribute what little knowledge we might have and slowly build up a valuable resource for lovers of Shadows music, both old and new.
The EF86 issue is ineed intriguing and when I built my AC15 replica I included both EF86 and top boost channels. The EF86 channel has three main differences: it has slightly higher gain, it has a flat mid range frequency response with a little bass cut (via the "brilliance" switch, and the EF86 is a pentode with a different distortion characteristic to the12AX7 triode. However, if the top boost channel is run with the bass and treble controls fully off it also has a fairly flat mid range and, if some external bass cut is provided by an outboard filter (but not the amp's bass control which also introduces a dip in the mid range) then the sound of the two channels is very close (a good trick for non EF86 Vox owners to try!). With regard to the different distortion characteristics, I made up a preamp with both EF86 and 12AX7 channels but balanced the gains and frequency responses of the two channels to be the same and nobody has been able to tell which is which when the channels are switched. I thus think that at least part of the magic of the early AC15's and AC30/4 was due to their flatter mid range frequency response rather than any particular virtue of the EF86. Finally, a number of the soundfiles posted that seem to be very close to the original recorded sound of the early Shadows numbers (such as done by Dave Robinson, Gege and even our own TVS website) were done without an EF86 in sight.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 21, 2009 13:25:27 GMT
Hi Alan, you make a good point re the nature of web sites. Perhaps a "FAQ" section pinned at the top would be very useful for newcomers and also build up a wealth of knowledge worth preserving? Also, on the EF86 issue, this tube was used only in the AC15's and AC30/4's. These were replaced in 1961 by the top boost AC30/6 amps that had the more robust 12AX7 input tubes and, according to Hank, were used for most of their early recordings. Paul.
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 21, 2009 2:27:16 GMT
Hi all,
The subject came up in a conversation with Hank a few days ago and (yet again!!) he said he used the Gretsch only on Nivram and A Girl Like You. He had it on stage as a backup since "it was the only other decent guitar that I had, but it was a bit silly really as it didn't sound at all like the Strat".
It seems strange that this Gretsch "conspiracy" thing keeps cropping up since both Hank and Bruce have discredited it and also I think that a number of us have shown that the early Shadows sound can be replicated with a Strat and other suitable gear.
Regards,
Paul.
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