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Post by milko on Oct 27, 2020 21:35:22 GMT
Hi Charlie, I think that the opportunity of buying a brand new AC30; retro-fitting it with genuine English “Blue” speakers, but then being able to replicate the EF86 sound perfectly, using your pedal, is a much safer (and much cheaper) proposition than risking buying and gigging an old EF86 based AC30. Assuming that your new pedal accurately replicates the chimey tone idiosyncrasies of the EF86, (and I know that it will), without all the aggro; it’s a winner!! The reason that the EF86 became yesteryears’ tube, was noise, reliability and longevity, and the ECC83/12AX7 addressed those issues, and was more versatile in circuits. Hence it’s continuing ubiquity in tube guitar amps. But I know that a GOOD EF86 has a stunning tone all of its own. Less low mids? Maybe? But certainly sounds great in an AC30, when the tube is perfect, but a poor EF86 - oh dear!! - microphonic, hissy, not nice! So buying your pedal versus risking a dodgy EF86 in a beautiful, classic but clapped out old AC30 is a no brainer. Charlie. I know you’ll do well with it! Milko
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Post by barryjh on Oct 27, 2020 21:57:15 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I would think the shift will be towards the new tech that gives the same result with the attraction of better reliability, ease of use and smaller, more portable gear. Also, if our American friends and others, have to replace the EF86 in their old Vox's then it will most likely be with a new version of the valve anyway. The popular use of DAW's for home recording and increased use of amp sims (DI'd to PA mixer by club acts) will be the new market. I have a very good AC30 Top Boost which I have used in theatre and club gigs up and the country over the last 15 yrs (I'm in Lancashire) and I wouldn't hesitate to leave it at home if I had a good amp sim alternative. I hardly ever use the Vox these days because the lightweight modern gear is more than a good substitute for me and your products always deliver.
Good luck with Charlie.
Regards, Barry
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 27, 2020 22:41:51 GMT
Hi Milko and Barry, Thanks to both of you for your views on this. It already helps me greatly. There has to be a reason Vox stopped using the EF86 in the modern HW models and I believe it must be because of what we already know about modern versions of the EF86. The normal channel of Vox amps is about as flat as any guitar amp can ever be and as such makes the almost perfect choice for use with the new pedal, if a guitar amp is the required choice of a particular player, as opposed to direct to the PA. I don't think an EF86 stage on its own would have less low mids. The stage would be fairly flat before EQ is applied, and harmonics are added because of non linearity with the valve's transfer characteristic. It is probably the added harmonics that could give the impression of less low mids. The circuit 2 version of the amp (Apache, Quatermasster's Stores) has more harmonic content than the circuit 3 version because the EF86 stage's components differ. The circuit 2 version has some reduction of low end which is applied after the EF86 stage, and is about the same reduction of low end as a Cutting Edge filter. The circuit 3 version has two sounds, full range (normal), and bass cut (brilliance). The latter is so dramatic that the cut or tone control has to be set so that most or all of the treble is removed, which effectively leaves a lot of mids, as heard on many of The Shadows earlier recordings. The new pedal can cover all these variations. The new pedal will not do the top boost sounds but there are already plenty of products available that can do that. I have done some tests with Hank's more modern 80's tones and the circuit 2 emulation of the pedal worked very well for that. I also found that using celluloid picks for the early sounds and a Dunlop Jazz III for the modern sounds was very effective. Regards, Charlie
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Post by bor64 on Oct 28, 2020 15:16:40 GMT
Reading all above,I'm glade I've stashed some NOS EF86 Siemens,Mullard and plenty other types NOS in the early 80's.
Cheers Rob
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 29, 2020 15:18:07 GMT
Hi Rob, I had three Mullard EF86 valves. One of them was of a very different internal contruction to the other two, but they all performed and sounded identically. After the research which was needed to design the pedal, I gave the three valves to someone who also has several old Vox amps, including one of the 12 original AC30 amps that were built for The Shadows. His help with comparing the pedal to his actual Vox amps was invaluable. Regards, Charlie
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Post by rogerbayliss on Oct 29, 2020 17:37:26 GMT
I watched this video recently and the owner 9v the Morgan AC20 stated he liked the EF86 channel and used it often with the bass cut feature. They compare tgat amp to a vintage AC30 AC30 V MORGAN AC20
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 29, 2020 18:54:35 GMT
Hi Roger, I watched the video. The comments section mainly favoured the AC30 but I believe it had more to do with the difference between the blue and gold Celestions, plus they never mentioned which channel of the AC30 was used until the tremolo/vibrato effect was demonstrated. Regards, Charlie
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Post by andyj47 on Oct 29, 2020 19:11:47 GMT
hi shadfans ,just watched this video, its a fact that no demonstrators seem to be able to do owt but whack out distorted chords I know we are a minority interest nowadays but a bit of single note playing would help you decide whats good and whats not.cheers ,andy.
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Post by rockinscott on Oct 30, 2020 21:25:43 GMT
Hi Charlie,
In response to the question you posed. I have an early 60's AC30 (non original cab with Rogers EF86 add on unit) I would love to own an AC15 or AC30/4. As normal bloke living in the real world that probably wont be a reality for me lol. But the idea that I could have a pedal that would give me those tones and that could also be used as an amp sim will be a god send, i like everyone else are waiting eagerly for this pedals arrival. I know the results will be amazing.
Thanks
Scott
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 31, 2020 22:58:01 GMT
Hi Scott, Thanks for your post. Looks like a fair number of you could have similar views. Of course the more posts the better. Regards, Charlie
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Post by gazongkapede on Nov 2, 2020 1:47:35 GMT
G'day Charlie and Hi Rob(bor64),
This business of VOX dropping the pentode channel has always puzzled me (given the general agreement that it provided the best, classic sound - at least as implemented in Dick Denny's circuits). Yes, the EF-86 seems to be an 'over-stressed' design and the poorer quality builds do go microphonic almost from Day 1. But, there are equivalent pentode designs which match the pin designations and circuit design (in this application) almost perfectly. For example, Philips made a longer bottle (less stressed design) E80F (or 6084) which is still available as NOS in SQ (special quality) form. Although fairly expensive, this is a 10,000 hour valve [maybe 50, 000 hours in this application? ... as long as we don't emulate the famous chuck it down the stairs 'test' back in the JMI heyday]. And, to my ears at least, it sings very sweetly indeed. Perhaps, Tom Jennings ruled against continued use of the pentode circuit on fears of purchaser claims against VOX as the inevitable failures ramped up. Understandable perhaps, but Tom's over-caution almost resulted in the AC-30/4 never coming into existence at all. Anyway, from the least reliable valve in my various Amps, my pentode channels have become my most reliable circuits. I have yet to replace any EF-80 (so far, fingers crossed); with replacement returning to the more usual power valves and rectifiers. i have 2 x 50th Anniversary heads, an AC-10 and Roger's add-on vintage unit to my AC-30/6. Hope this is useful in the current discussion. However, like others, I am very much looking forward to the imminent reality of your EF-86 Pre-Amp, Charlie (with the extra flexibility and possibilities which this will provide). I haven't contributed much lately ... but I do frequently 'loiter with intent' ...
Best Regards,
Dick Busser
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Post by gazongkapede on Nov 2, 2020 2:00:01 GMT
Ha. For EF-80 please read E80F. (My traitorous fingers will be amputated at dawn!).
Dick B.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 2, 2020 17:26:19 GMT
Hi Dick, I read your posts with great interest. I would be very grateful for your opinion of the new pedal when you have had a chance to try and compare it. Regards, Charlie
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Post by darrell12345 on Nov 10, 2020 18:57:11 GMT
Hi Charlie, How's the project coming along is it looking hopeful to be out by Christmas. Also are you doing anymore demo's. Regards Darrell
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 10, 2020 19:20:32 GMT
Hi Darrell, A modified casing prototype should be ready this week, then costing the product will be done. I hope it will be ready by Christmas. I will do some demos when I can. Regards, Charlie
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Post by darrell12345 on Nov 10, 2020 19:59:15 GMT
Thanks Charlie, Really looking forward to this pedal coming out. Take care, Darrell
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Post by bor64 on Nov 12, 2020 19:30:19 GMT
Hi Charlie, I hope it's already before Christmas on it's way....I'm afraid when it's January all outside UK have pay extra taxes and customs, because of the Brexit. I'm on the list for 3 of these gems....so when they ready later then December, I reckon I'm paying through the nose to funding Boris new car Cheers Rob
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 12, 2020 20:21:47 GMT
Hi Rob, Thank you, I am hoping, and as you will imagine, I have very little control over this, except to keep pushing them, like a car with no fuel! Regards, Charlie
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Post by Jono on Nov 21, 2020 0:02:30 GMT
Hi Charlie its been quite a while since I last looked in hope you all well. Can you confirm I am on your list for a unit?.
Best Regards John
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 21, 2020 0:19:46 GMT
Hi John, Thank you, and yes, you are on the list. Regards, Charlie
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Post by darrell12345 on Nov 30, 2020 21:22:31 GMT
Hi Charlie, hope all is well. Any more news on the pedal. Regards Darrell
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 1, 2020 0:12:54 GMT
Hi Darrell, Stephen received a modified casing which is now apparently satisfactory. The last I know it was to be sent off to be painted. I haven't been able to contact Stephen for a few days so I don't know if he got it back yet. Regards, Charlie
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Post by darrell12345 on Dec 1, 2020 9:22:24 GMT
Thanks for the update Charlie. Regards Darrell
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Post by mickhunt on Dec 2, 2020 7:59:08 GMT
Hi charlie Are they able to do the costing yet
Mickhunt
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 2, 2020 17:29:00 GMT
Hi Mick, I asked the other day and they should be able to do it, now I must try to call Stephen to see if it has been done. Regards, Charlie
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Post by mickhunt on Dec 4, 2020 10:00:28 GMT
Thanks charlie
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Post by darrell12345 on Dec 7, 2020 17:05:53 GMT
Hi Charlie, is it looking hopeful for your new pedal to be ready for Christmas, or the new year. Best wishes Darrell
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 7, 2020 17:40:36 GMT
Hi Darrell, Hope is fading for a pre-Christmas launch, I am very sorry to say. Regards, Charlie
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Post by rogerbayliss on Dec 7, 2020 17:53:19 GMT
Hi Charlie no worries about that.
Could you refresh us on the emulations and features of the pedal. I know you mentioned ef86 series 2 and 3 circuits and brilliance switching amongst other things and 12 ac power supply .
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 7, 2020 21:05:48 GMT
Hi Roger, True Bypass footswitch with LED indicator. Switchable channels 1, 2a, and 2b with 3 way rotary selector Channel 1 is 1959 circuit 2 with volume and tone controls Channel 2a is 1960 circuit 3 normal setting with shared volume and tone controls with Channel 2b which is 1960 circuit 3 brilliance setting Power amp emulation for each channel, actually the same power amp with the tone controls automatically selected, depending on the channel selected Speaker emulation circuit can be switched on or off with 2 way rotary selector. Master output volume control, with enough output level to drive a line input. Powered by 12 Volt AC Power Supply Regards, Charlie
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